Qt and Nokia’s new strategy

qtnext · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:01

the joke :(

http://qt.nokia.com/about/events/mobile-world-congress-2011

troubalex · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:14

Okay, look. I know nobody is happy about this. I also know that you worry about where we're going. You may have bet your business on Qt. But so have we. I am confident enough that we will see a solution soon.

CreMindES · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:20

"My opinion about this.":http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/2675/P45/#23187

Algirdasss · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:31

It's interesting. This move was really inevitable or it's because Elop is former employee of Microsoft ... of course stupid question, we'll never know the truth ... but its in my mind...

I remembered some time ago there was a message from outgoing Nokia CEO saying:

bq. Anssi Vanjoki, outgoing head of Nokia’s smartphone division, likens mobile phone makers that adopt Google’s software to Finnish boys who”pee in their pants” for warmth in the winter. Temporary relief is followed by an even worse predicament.

So it seems Nokia started to pee also ...

sfilippidis · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:39

I think that this period of time (just after the announcement of the new strategy) is a time to wait! I hope that Qt will evolve (once more) and adapt to the new status quo. We will just have to wait. :)

Algirdasss · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:46

If there would be silence, you could start thinking that everybody is happy about this ...

CreMindES · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:47

Algirdasss that was the quote that I've just quoted in another forum about 5 second ago :) I totally agree.

sfilippidis · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 15:49

[quote author="Algirdasss" date="1297439162"]If there would be silence, you could start thinking that everybody is happy about this ... [/quote]

I was not commenting against posting opinions. I was just commenting against not-well-thought-decisions: you don't give up on an investment* so "easy". ;)

*learning a framework is an investment

Algirdasss · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 16:03

Yep, head is too hot to make good decisions today. Obviously our company will continue on Qt, because price is too hight to move (and thats makes me nervous) ... at least for nearest future. Besides I started making some program on QT for mobile devices. But after todays announcement I started to lean to Android ... that was always my second choice after Nokia's former ecosystem:)

Duff · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 16:59

Mixed feelings ...

I'm a desktop developer with Qt, so my perspective is a little skewed towards that functionality. I feel like Qt has made some interesting improvements since being purchased by Nokia. Going LGPL certainly made things easier and QML has looked really interesting. My problem with the direction was that toolkit development was definitely focusing on the mobile side of things and just getting the cool new stuff to work on the desktop was frustrating.

Whatever the future brings, I hope that QML will not fade away (what a waste that would be). I would never rule anything out, but as of now, mobile development on Qt does not have a very promising near future (and near future is everything in mobile development). Lets face it, there is no future for Qt on mobile platforms under Nokia. The best we can hope for if Qt stays with Nokia is a renewed concentration on desktop applications and continued playtime with Meego.

Qt is suddenly in a toxic environment analogous to the environment Nokia is trying to get out of. I think Nokia is making a smart move. They have to do this to compete. There is no more time to waste. Hopefully they will make the proper decision to move on from Qt (and soon) if it does not figure to play a major role in their strategy. Under the current circumstances, Qt needs a new home where trolls and community members can embrace and extend the great work done with Qt 4 and QML in a timely manner.

njeisecke · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 17:17

When I spoke with one of the Qt developers on the last Qt developer days in munich I mentioned my fear that with Elop we might see a significant strategic change towards WM7 considering the slow development pace of Qt Quick / Meego / Symbian(^4). Unfortunately my fear was not totally unjust.

Whilst Android/iOS devices sold like crazy some of the technical sessions during DD were about unfinished basic widget animation stuff (cool stuff actually, but not ready for primetime). Casually following the Components mailing list I would say it still is not ready yet.

I don't want to know how much pressure was on the Trolls. But obviously they did not deliver an environment that is needed by Nokia to offer competitive devices now.

Nokia exists to make money. If they support an open source system it's because they hope to make money with that. If they don't they'll drop it. Simple as that. That doesn't mean that I think Elops decision for WM7 is right, I just respect his decision.

I feel sorry for the Trolls though. It's quite a slap in the face.

I hope Qt will have a bright future on the desktop and maybe with future Meego devices because I really like the toolkit and I like the Trolls.

Nils

esdrasbeleza · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 17:25

I'm also very afraid of the Qt future. I chose Qt because of its good support for all platforms (Linux, Mac OS, Windows, etc.), and because of the good directions Nokia gave to it. But now that Microsoft and Nokia have that partnership, we all know what Microsoft want from its partners: to emphasize the support for its platforms and try to forget the other ones.

Yes, Qt is LGPL. If something wrong happen to it, we can fork it. But fragmentation isn't a good thing.

I really want to be wrong, the time will tell us what will be the future of Qt.

codenode · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 17:35

[quote author="qtnext" date="1297436063"]Hopes ... but ...
at short term, qt will continue .. for sure ... Elop needs you for the transition ... But after...
For small company like mine, It's very disturbing to read Nokia new Roadmap ... I have invested since years in Qt ... and I see no commercial raison (the new roadmap for Nokia ...is clearly not technicall but just commercial ) why Nokia will continue Desktop and mobile Qt platform ... in fact good day for microsoft : find a way to sell wP7, kill meego and symbian and kill the only good commercial C++ platform ... viva dotnet ...
[/quote]

Kind of true, but, lets wait.
Nokia is not the only company using Qt, also a Fork could happen. Ubuntu already supports Qt, maybe we see a Phone from them soon, (there rumors about that too ;)).

Also, afaik Qt is not owned by Nokia:
http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php

Qt is free.
If Google is smart, they will support the Lighthouse Project on Android, and make Qt work well on Android, this would be really bad for Nokia ;)

mario · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 18:44

I hope Canonical forks Qt.

I can't see how Microsoft... I mean Nokia have any interest in Qt, it's all about .NET now. They have successfully shutdown MeeGo, an open source system which could have been a threat for WP7.

Canonical is quite involved in Linaro and they have also shown interest in starting to use Qt.

I can't see why Google should have any interest in Qt since they already have a large developer base and a growing market place. Obviously there were many JavaME developer out there which was looking for something better :)

petermui · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 19:36

[quote author="Duff" date="1297443576"]Mixed feelings ...

I'm a desktop developer with Qt,... My problem with the direction was that toolkit development was definitely focusing on the mobile side of things and just getting the cool new stuff to work on the desktop was frustrating.
... Under the current circumstances, Qt needs a new home where trolls and community members can embrace and extend the great work done with Qt 4 and QML in a timely manner.

[/quote]

I work for ICS and we've also been frustrated with the lack of attention that's been paid to Qt desktop. We've been considering a maintenance offering with extended features to support Qt desktop, such as updating and maintaining features and tools to keep pace, but we'd need a critical mass of companies to sign up in order to justify the investment in time and resources on our side. Is that something your company might be interested in?

sabrog · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 20:49

I hope that now the development of the port for Android, and ios going full speed. Rather the developers were waiting for a visual signal from Nokia. Now there is no competition.

P.S.: sorry about English, it's google translate, but i hope you understand what i talking about.

Smar · wrote on 11 Feb 2011, 21:35

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/nokia_microsoft_deal_confirmed_5_key_questions.php

This just occurred to me.

If this is true, and things goes like Elop wants, I suppose mobile Qt is quite dead. Including Meego.

Now waiting next piece of news...

This Free Qt Foundation is basis for some real support for Qt, even if Nokia refuses to do anything. Time will show how it’ll go...

Algirdasss · wrote on 13 Feb 2011, 23:10

Ok,

Finally we even have some official position form Qt itself. But in reality nothing changed, nothing cleared... It's interesting they believe in what they say or it's just an official company (Nokia) position.
You know, what is very important in business is reliance. Lot of important decisions are made in the business world having guarantees based only on mutual trust between partners. And what is pity is that Nokia has broken this trust based connection between company and it's partners and developers. From now I don't trust in any word that is said by this company. It may say one thing and do another, and that was proven recently.
I think this announcement in London was quite brutal and unwise. It was good for Microsoft because they shouted very loudly - hey hey, we have strong partner and we will fight back in mobile market that we lost already. But that wasn't good for Nokia. Firstly it clearly showed that it has lot of problems and needs quick help. Second, Nokia is a big company with large community around it. Such emphatic single-day turns are quite childish act, that involves lot of panic and shows no respect to community. After this Nokia made some announcements about planned!! other millions of Symbian (zombie) devices and some MeeGo ghost device just trying to minimize developer dissatisfaction. Of course, first WP7 devices will come only after year or more, so the gap must be filled with something. But it was clearly stated that in long term these platforms will phased out and WP7 development will be done only using MS tools. Nokia, do you treat us developers as fools expecting that we will invest and develop for dying platforms?????
Maybe that was the only way to go ... as everybody say, time will show. If this rescue plan will succeed, Nokia will have to spend long time recovering trust ... if Nokia will not be part of MS till that time :)

What is my final decision. I don't blame Qt for anything. Trolls are just hostages of situation. I like Qt and only because of this I write all this stuff spending lot of my free time. I believe Qt will live further ... at least in desktop. And I'll continue to use it in my daily work for creating desktop apps. But I have the last Nokia phone ... shame.

P.S. Some interesting facts that I found in media. Conclusions up to you:

After cooperation announcement Nokia share price felt by 12%;
Elop is former employee of Microsoft. And thats not ALL. Elop is the 7th biggest Microsoft shareholder.
Nokia was spending about 5,9 billions EUR for research, about 4 times more than Apple.

sabrog · wrote on 14 Feb 2011, 06:17

Picture what i found in internet:

!http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/elop-600x480.jpg(Elop Trojan Horse)!

Algirdasss · wrote on 14 Feb 2011, 06:52

Jut have read another article ... now Elop talks at Barselona, Mobile World Congress ...
"Full article":http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-20031686-78.html

Some things I liked best:

bq. But some investors in the company believe that Nokia got the short end of this deal. While the benefits to Microsoft are apparent as it competes against Google and Apple in the mobile market, it's unclear to investors how the deal benefits Nokia. Shares in Nokia fell 14 percent in Helsinki after the deal was announced Friday.

bq. We are paying them for the software," he said. "But we won't have to develop the software. And there will be some very apparent operating savings from doing this

So it seems in long term Nokia will become pure hardware producer ...

bq. Elop also noted that the Qt development environment that is used for Symbian handsets to make development easier would not be usable on Windows Phone 7 applications. He said this strategy was adopted to ensure that divergent platforms don't confuse developers or consumers

So ... that was a question and here is an answer ... no Qt on mobile ... bye bye. From now the only thing Elop cares is WP7 and Microsoft. Present Nokia community and ideals does not exist for him. Very disgraceful.